Rebuilding while Dismantling: Therapy Through an Abolition Framework
For background on this long-form interview series, please read the post-script (bottom of page).
My third interview is with…
Autumn McDonald (she/her), a queer social work therapist who engages an abolitionist framework in her work with clients, and in all of her care work. Read on to learn how she brings abolition values to her world-building work.
“We as people are not broken, we’re living in a broken world. In my work as a therapist I look at what those oppressions and that brokenness puts on us. ”
Creative entrepreneurs are often asked to story ourselves to other people. We create our bios, resumes or CVs, descriptions of our work, elevator pitches, longer pitches, and much more, all trying to tell a cohesive and engaging story about our who, what, and why. Often, we update these stories multiple times, changing them to fit the needs of different audiences.
Please tell me about yourself, and if possible, please tell me a story of yourself beyond the work you do.
“This [question] tripped me up because I was trying to think about who I am beyond my work. Most of my work is care work, and I don’t know that there’s story beyond that in some ways. It’s hard for me to separate it. My care work, outside of the therapy practice, includes nanny and doula work, Northstar health collective work, and mom work. Providing community care and safety; family care and safety.”
Who are you as a therapist that does abolition work?
“[Though I have my social work degree] I didn’t learn therapy in school- it all comes from care work. We as people are not broken, we’re living in a broken world. In my work as a therapist I look at what those oppressions and that brokenness puts on us.
Most people think of abolition as getting rid of police, prisons, slavery, but abolition is the framework. So using that framework in therapy I talk about how to dismantle things we don’t want in our lives or in society. [I emphasize that] we have to focus on building ultimate care support and love. We need to dismantle as we’re building, so we have something to replace what’s broken. I work with people to really build structures of support [in their lives]. Active dismantling is then made easier, but it’s still a lot of work.”
“When I thought of going into private individual therapy, I was having a hard time not feeling like a sellout. So I was trying to find a way to do that in alignment with my values and also in a way that could build to collective care.”
Another part of your story is what you do. I’ll bet you’re often asked that question so people can learn about the work you do through your business.
Please tell me about your work, including how long you’ve been doing it and where you offer it, and what the germinating seed of your idea was that caused you to start creating this work. When you decided to come up with the idea to combine abolition and therapy, what was the germinating seed of that idea?
“With Northstar being an abolitionist building block to care, I feel really truly aligned with my values when operating and working within that space. When I thought of going into private individual therapy, I was having a hard time not feeling like a sellout. So I was trying to find a way to do that in alignment with my values and also in a way that could build to collective care. I was very lucky to have a really fantastic teacher in my grad school program where we did actually talk about abolition, and we had great mentorship and communication around how healing the individual is still healing the collective. I combine the two.
I’m a therapist because of my life experience, and that’s totally where anything that comes through me comes from.
I believe new and established energy is what is needed to sustain movements, AND in this field we need to be honoring and respectful and cognizant of the work that’s been done and who it’s been done by. The real work, not just the old dead white men we learned about in school- the real liberation work, whether that’s in therapy or other avenues.
People can find me online on Psychology Today’s website, on The Courageous Truth’s website, and can get in touch with me by email: autumnmcdonaldlgsw@gmail.com. I see clients via telehealth only. Clients must live in Minnesota (and can live anywhere in the state).”
It’s one thing to explain what you do, but a whole different thing for you to convey the why behind your work.
What are your values that keep driving you to create this particular work?
“Seeing the good in people. And [knowing] that it’s not all on us- it goes back to that broken world, right? Connectivity, that we are in it together. At the basis of all of this work is connection. Healing points where [connection has] been severed.
Being able to see what’s behind why people do things. Seeing the humanity in a person, past their thoughts and actions.”
We are creative entrepreneurs in a hard, hard world. It takes dedication and commitment to care for ourselves, and a practice of vulnerability to allow others to care for us, all in the effort to find some kind of peace in our lives while we go on doing what we love.
What are your practices of vulnerability that allow you to be cared for by others? What are some examples of how you care for yourself, and how you receive care from other people? Peace looks a lot different for us queer folks and folks who’ve been living with a lot of care responsibilities, like you. So through that queered framework, what are some examples of how you care for yourself?
“How I care for myself is through connecting and collaborating. Sure, there are things that might calm my nervous system, but what fills my soul is connection and collaboration with others who I align with in terms of our values and our work. It’s still work, but it’s connection, and it feeds me.
And hanging out with beloveds in sacred place. Balancing connection with nervous system relief.
Being cared for by other people is harder. That’s my work right now- it’s big work, too. I have needed to be really independent and solid for my family. Taking care of my family is in alignment with my values. A lot of times that [has meant] doing it alone.
Some ways I' have received care from others: [Knowing] that when I ask for help, the people I am asking are more likely to ask for and receive help from me. Unexpected demonstrations of care also: like when my dad died and my beloveds showed up for the funeral; my collective family showed up in many ways, including care packages, flowers and cards from people- those are examples of how I receive care. But I’m working on the asking.”
“It’s a real relationship- and weird that it’s commodified- back in the day I would have been the old lady in the hut in the woods and sad people would come talk to me and feel better and leave me a basket of apples. It was a role, not a job.””
Another thing that we need to talk about are those fierce boundaries that we need to have in place in order to show up at our fullest and tap into our creativity.
What is an example of a boundary you’ve put in place, and how does that boundary allow you to create both work and hope in your life?
“I look it as roles: what role am I currently operating within? Because [my roles] all have different boundaries. Like, the boundary between provider and client sets up a power and wisdom dynamic that I don’t like to prescribe to. Yet there still needs to be boundaries to create a safe containment within the therapeutic relationship.
Those role boundaries in my care work help me to maintain that therapeutic boundary. Unboundaried me would want to rush in and be everything for that person I’m working with, [but] that makes it about me as well as them, and that’s not what that role is about.
It’s a real relationship- and weird that it’s commodified- back in the day I would have been the old lady in the hut in the woods and sad people would come talk to me and feel better and leave me a basket of apples. It was a role, not a job.”
As a creative entrepreneur, I am working towards our collective future. I know that despite the immense number of challenges we are facing right now and in the coming years, we absolutely can join together to create a world where the earth, creatures, land, and people are resourced and thriving. I know my work fits into that future.
You’ve got a big vision for the world and that is part of why you do what you do, too.
Please tell me some stories about the world you envision and how your work relates to creating those changes.
“With my therapy work I get to see in little and big ways everyday how their world is changing, and how they navigate it and feel about navigating it. And that’s creating wholeness; that’s also power. Supporting people’s healing…
If we have a world of people operating as their authentic selves, what better way to shore up people for the world?
If people come at the world whole, we’ll be so much more powerful in changing the world. Parallelling my work with Northstar, we’re trying to keep people safe to keep them on the streets. If we can do that individually and collectively, it makes us so much stronger.”
On a tough day, what do you turn to for encouragement?
“This goes back to connection and collaboration. If I’m reminded I’m not siloed and doing work alone, it encourages me to be in it for the slow times and the hard times. Friends, family (of origin and chosen). And learning from those who’ve been doing the work for forever.”
A lot of creative entrepreneurs started out early on, some even as early as childhood.
When did you start creating and testing out various business ideas? Please tell me the story of an early business idea you conceived of or tried, even if it’s very different from what you’re doing now.
“I was selling my kindergarten school picture to the neighbors for a penny, and that was my first business idea. And, that was how I met my longest-term friend who I am still in relationship with now!”
Where to find Autumn:
autumnmcdonaldlgsw@gmail.com
The Courageous Truth, LLC Website
Psychology Today
Thank YOu, Autumn!
Post-Script: Project Background
I conceived of the summer long-form interviews project in early 2024 as a way to join my world-building communications work with my enjoyment of interviewing people.
Through these interviews, I’m amplifying the work of six creative entrepreneurs who I think are world building in beautiful ways. Please check out their websites, social media platforms and LinkedIn pages… follow them, share their work and engage with their content! Interviews are lightly edited for clarity.
The guiding values for this series include sharing the work, connecting with/building community, amplification of good world-building work done by creative entrepreneurs who are Queer, Trans, and/or Black, Indigenous, or people of color. These interviews are framed within queer & trans futurity & Black & Indigenous futurity.
This is a limited series- I’ll be publishing one interview a week for six weeks.
If you know of a creative entrepreneur whose work you feel should be amplified, please send me a note: MxPepper@LucindaPepper.com
